Alle 51 Kommentare

[–]Eratticus 36 Punkte37 Punkte  (9 Kinder)

I definitely feel this. My company has mandated LLM tools to write code while at the same time prohibiting allowlists on commands for any reason so every decision needs my manual approval. So much of my time is now spent babysitting Claude. I have seen it make mistakes and delete things as we all know. But needing to approve an `ls` command is such a time sink in a completely different way than anything before LLMs.

[–]Material_Echidna_374 21 Punkte22 Punkte  (3 Kinder)

The approval loop is the worst part. You end up spending more mental energy checking whether the agent is about to do something stupid than you would just typing the command yourself. It turns coding into a weird mix of babysitting and rubber-stamping, and neither feels productive.

[–]myhf 5 Punkte6 Punkte  (1 Kind)

At first I thought that allow-listing enough safe commands would make it easier to only pay attention to the dangerous commands. But no, the entire approval loop is security theater.

If you're running in an environment that can recover from running a bad command, then you can just roll back changes when you need to. If you're not running in a recoverable environment, no amount of babysitting will be enough to prevent a disaster.

[–]thekwoka [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

eh, well, you can limit it to premade skills, and just plain generally deny things that introduce greater risk.

Like letting it run any code that isn't strictly a shell script and shell scripts that aren't well known commands require babysitting.

But yes, the best solution is to sandbox it well, so it can't really do anything TOO damaging...

[–]TheBasedTaka 3 Punkte4 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

Deleted my terraform statefile yesterday when it was deleting temp files in my project. Apparently terraform state is considered temporary 

[–]shiny0metal0assfull-stack idiot 7 Punkte8 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

Lol "AI native" is going to be the destruction of so many code bases...

[–]cmaxim 3 Punkte4 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

I frequently encounter a corporate policy of "Everyone needs to be using AI 100% of the time, 60% of the time, everytime!"

We had Fable for a hot minute before they pulled the plug and panicked when the bills rolled in, lol.

[–]BigBootyBear[S] 2 Punkte3 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

Then you get approval fatigue and start giving more and more power to the AI. I caught myself a few times realizing I approved something that, not necessarily destructive, was still something I shouldn't automate away (i.e. adding an account-wide GH key). You also get sloppy in the process.

[–]thekwoka [Bewertung versteckt]  (1 Kind)

Surely you can just have a local allowlist that is sensible to you, no?

Like...how would they know?

[–]Eratticus [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

All the tools are centrally managed

[–]GriffinMakesThings 14 Punkte15 Punkte  (9 Kinder)

The comments in here are incredibly depressing. So many people have clearly just given up. Are ya'll really happy to just sit and lose your ability to write software while you watch LLMs vomit out code? No way people using agents this way are actually reviewing everything, that's just impossible.

This shit's dark.

[–]ExoMonk 9 Punkte10 Punkte  (2 Kinder)

It's really hard not to. It's kind of like min-maxing in a video game. Actually a lot like it. There is this prevalent issue amongst Destiny 2 players where you'll see someone complain that they are stuck using the same build and the same guns and it's stale. Users will say "just use something else, you're doing this to yourself" And that's true, but it's hard to not use the most effective tools at the job just because. I think it gets right into your psyche and like water you follow the path of least resistance.

I struggle greatly because if I could retire right now I would. I do not want to work for a living, I want to live and eb and flow into different hobbies, but I can't; I have to work. I was more content with my job before AI because I was forcing my brain to really solve problems. It was as exhausting as it was rewarding. But now with that Claude button staring at me it's really easy to just push it and fuck off to reddit, youtube or whatever.

In a way it's also like eating out vs. cooking for us folks that have issues with food. I can cook, but it's a lot of work and the outcome is just good enough; I accomplished the mission. Ordering out offers infinite variety and is consistently good and easy, but comes with a whole host of negatives.

I think my mental health might be suffering from AI.

[–]GriffinMakesThings 3 Punkte4 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

I'm sure your mental health is suffering! Sitting and watching code auto-generate while you periodically approve changes is a spiritually depraved activity. No one wants to spend their days as a machine slave.

I'm sorry for everyone stuck in this situation.

[–]thekwoka [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

Optimize the fun right out of it.

[–]bingNbong96 [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

They don't review shit, features that should take 100 lines at most end up in PRs with 1k+ lines somehow.
People opening 5 PRs a day with 1k+ lines each, of course they didn't review shit.

And worst of all, I have some colleagues that not only pump up shit non-stop, they will take on my tasks if I don't finish them quick enough (without anyone asking btw) and make me look like a slacker.

I'm fortunate enough to work someplace that's not batshit crazy yet with mandated AI, and at the beginning I barely use it, but now I'm scared of getting fired for not slopping as much as everyone else so yes, I gave up.

[–]Eratticus 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (1 Kind)

Shit is dark because developers are being told to adapt or they'll be replaced. Older experienced companies are losing ground to "AI native" startups that executives are perceiving as being more effective because of their AI use and investors agree.

[–]thekwoka [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

But with none of them really proving they are more effective.

Of lot os startups are "more effective" more so because of lower bureaucracy, but an AI native one will be more effective because they're just skipping any kind of decent architecture and it will bite them later.

unless they hope a later AI will be good enough to rewrite the whole thing without the bugs.

[–]Mediocre-Writer6635 [Bewertung versteckt]  (2 Kinder)

No way people using agents this way are actually reviewing everything, that's just impossible.

idk I review every line it puts out that goes into our actual product.

Yes it's slower than AI's "top speed", but it's still faster than writing it myself. I also catch a lot of logical inconsistencies, dead code, useless fluff, etc.

There's a lot of code that is boilerplate and requires little review. AI speeds that up immensely. Or QoL scripts whose quality doesn't matter much as long as they produce correct results.

I also spend a lot more time on writing out specs, documentation, etc. I feel like the architecture produced by discussing it with the LLM for a few rounds is better than what I produce myself, because by myself I'm tempted to just start writing as soon as I have an idea of what I want. With the LLM I have to explain exactly how it should be done, discuss if that's the right approach, ask if there's other options or possible pros and cons to weigh, and verify that it was done the way I expected.

I think in some cases at least, the result is far superior.

[–]thekwoka [Bewertung versteckt]  (1 Kind)

LLMs are also great for just breaking coder's block.

Seeing it do a shitty job can inspire you to fix it faster than if you tried to muster up the motivation and thought yourself, sometimes.

[–]Mediocre-Writer6635 [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

yeah definitely. I frequently find it easier to review and modify existing code than write from scratch.

[–]jbcaprell 8 Punkte9 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

There’s a line in the Ada 83 Language Reference Manual that goes:

The need for languages that promote reliability and simplify maintenance is well established. Hence emphasis was placed on program readability over ease of writing.

… and has been similarly expressed in things like Clean Code by Robert C. Martin as:

Indeed, the ratio of time spent reading versus writing is well over 10 to 1. We are constantly reading old code as part of the effort to write new code. ...[Therefore,] making it easy to read makes it easier to write.

… and this sort of thing has always been true. In an environment where LLMs have dramatically reduced the burden of writing code (of various quality), that ratio only grows: which means that when-and-where your work looks more like supervision, you really have to foreground directing agents to never give you big, sprawling commits that are utterly unreviewable. You need explicitly direct the agent to tell you a story the way you that a good senior would direct a junior developer to break up a 5K LOC pull request, because you’re on the hook for maintaining what been written, and the LLM will not at-all prioritize review-ability unless you direct it to do so.

[–]dcabines 18 Punkte19 Punkte  (7 Kinder)

Stop having it write features for you. Ask it how it would write a feature then type it out yourself.

You’re robbing yourself of actual on the job learning and growth by babysitting the agent while mindlessly scrolling on your phone. Don’t let it steal your education or your critical thinking skills so easily.

[–]Fredidiah 9 Punkte10 Punkte  (4 Kinder)

Seems like asking it how it would write a feature also robs you of actual learning and growth.

You can just…think about it and then write the feature.

[–]M_dev20 5 Punkte6 Punkte  (3 Kinder)

Good luck doing that in a company that expects you to deliver 5x faster because they hand you a Claude Subscription

[–]hithere274 3 Punkte4 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

And even if they don't specifically expect you to, your boss is going to ask why you can't keep up with your colleagues.

[–]Fredidiah 3 Punkte4 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

I mean, the advice was to write what Claude tells you so you can learn…which I feel like in that case, you’re sacrificing both the speed improvements AND the learning. Like the worst of both worlds.

[–]djnattyp 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

Good luck working as a chef in a restaurant that specializes in shit sandwiches.

[–]Julio_the_dog 2 Punkte3 Punkte  (1 Kind)

Second this. For the last week I've had Claude code work on a mobile layout. I am not well versed in that aspect of design, and, though, Claude has done an okay job, much of the css it wrote was a black box to me. I felt my ability as a developer did not improve while it worked. Once it had completed the broadstrokes, obviously there were other details that needed to be fixed. This was such a pain to have Claude fix without also breaking 5 other things and chewing up thousands of tokens.

It ended up being so much easier for me to just spend a few hours reading through all of its changes and modifying the structure in a way that made more sense per the conventions that I'm used to. Then I could finish up the smaller details myself and with better results.

It would have taken me much longer to produce what it created initially given my experience, but without reading the code and learning it, I would probably still be going back and forth with it to finish up the polish.

[–]Mediocre-Writer6635 [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

idk, I just write skills to teach the AI to do things the way I want them done in the first place. Then I review what it did line by line and see if i don't udnerstand anything, I ask for an explanation. If it did something I don't like I have it modify the skill.

It's still faster than writing it myself.

And the resulting code is about the same quality as I usually produce.

It does suck at CSS especially though, I've noticed.

[–]C0c04l4 2 Punkte3 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

I play chess.

[–]destel116 2 Punkte3 Punkte  (1 Kind)

Same thing. And if I work on several projects at the same time this way, I also end up in the situation when most sessions wait for my input for too long.

[–]BigBootyBear[S] 4 Punkte5 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

There's also the case where the AI can struggle with something simple for so much time (and go on weird rabbit holes) that it offsets all the time you've saved on what it was genuinely productive at.

[–]digitalbananax 2 Punkte3 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

Crank some tunes on the good ol' transistor radio, maybe cook a steak, mow the lawn, yeeeah booi

[–]sateliteconstelation 2 Punkte3 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

A few months back I started making poly-clay sculptures to fill this gap. I have over 200 now.

Also, and on a brighter productive note. I’m starting to get the hang of working on 3-4 tickets at a time, so there’s always one that needs my attention.

[–]taotau 1 Punkt2 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

Which YouTuber put out a video about this topic? There's been this exact question quite a few times today.

[–]lucasg115 1 Punkt2 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

I've got ADHD, so when I'm in a flow state I'll just have two or three agents coding at the same time, often even for different projects. Then I just bounce between them for approvals and follow-up prompts.

[–]abeuscher 1 Punkt2 Punkte  (1 Kind)

You do not have to fill every moment of your workday with activity. If you have a process running you get to wait for it to end that is not procrastination nor is it lazy. If your employer is monitoring you so closely that you feel like you can't just relax while your machine is working then that's a culture problem.

We are thought workers. Brains are like muscles and need rest and breaks. Brains have a fixed capacity and when you go over it your brain does not instantly recover. Be kind to your brain. Give it space to breath. Look away from a screen. Bring a book. Better yet walk away and outside if you can set an alarm to pull you back in when it is time to review the work from the prompt.

And listen - if you get shit for it, then make sure whoever gives you that shit is working every single minute of every single fucking day and make sure they know you're watching them always. Force the anxiety back on them until they break. Because bosses can be made to burn out - often more easily than plebes. And forcing you to work when you're already busy and waiting is a great way to make people crazy.

[–]thekwoka [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

it used to be you slacked off while waiting for compilation, now you slack off while waiting for claude

[–]Sapn1s 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

Not that this addresses you main question, but
"asks for permissions" you can use skip permissions guard, depends on what harness you use but like claude code has already built-in protection to not wipe your drive. It can still happen though, so ideally you setup the projects to run in docker containers or anything else , whatever is your pick of damage management, maybe u can just backup all your files, whatever you choose, but there are options to avoid perma permission yes accepting, if you plan to use it a lot, id invest time solving it first to save time/effort long term.

[–]bunzelburner 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

maybe I'll get shit on for this but I have started to use it to do tasks that have a clear plan. for example, I had dashboard pages set up for 2 resource types. I needed a dashboard page for a third resource type. So essentially the template was there from the first 2 including the API endpoint shapes. I told Claude where to look, had it develop a plan, and had it go. Then I worked on something else. Came back later, tested and checked. Now I have the base dashboard page for that resource ready to go and I could just add the necessary customizations for that page on top of it. Saved me probably and hour or two in that instance. I still understood how it all worked because I basically wrote the templates it was using, and I checked over the plan before letting it go to make sure it wasn't getting cheeky on me.

[–]darkn1 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

I've taken to improving the "softer" side of the nature of our work. Design, layout, readability, accessibility. Those sorts of things, rather than just raw code or engineering effort.

But at the same time yeah I feel what everyone is saying

[–]Electro_Nick_s 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

I work in security so I'm often juggling multiple projects but I have in all my agents.mds for my tools to split off into it's own worktree whenever editing files. So in the middle of the work day I might have two to four sessions going depending on how busy I am. At that point there is no down time. I would recommend 'avoid-ai-writing' as a skill as well. I also use openspec and build code to spec which prevents some of that drift

[–]subnu 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

Procrastination culture is a massive thing in software development, even prior to AI. It was just easier to fall victim to when things took 15x as long to create.

[–]Turbulent_Spare6385 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

The problem I have with agentic AI is that the further you diverge from writing the code yourself, the harder it becomes to stay in sync with the codebase. We end up tailoring our workflows with loops of writing, verification, and rewriting just to build enough trust in the agent’s output. I can see the productivity benefits, but I’m not sure I like this. I actually enjoy writing code, or at least used to, since I’m not writing anymore

[–]pierec [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

Try to setup your workflow in a way that doesn't require you as a semi-passive copilot. You scope out the work and come back for results. This may require some legwork first to get your project in an agent-friendly state.

I work out when agents are doing longer stretches of work.

I've setup a small corner with kettlebells and a yoga mat in my office some months back. My posture, energy and focus improved quite a bit. Now I have the drive to learn new stuff again.

Use the extra time to improve yourself, starting with your health. I'm considering the current agentic coding revolution a temporary boon to one's free time. The project management / planning side of things hasn't caught up yet, so engineers leveraging agents end up having less to do in my experience. Take advantage of that while it lasts. Work on yourself, use the time to poke around what other teams are doing, maybe look for opportunities to contribute to some org-wide initiatives.

[–]Mediocre-Writer6635 [Bewertung versteckt]  (0 Kinder)

I read code it previously wrote while it's doing the next thing, and write down prompts to fix or explain whatever I find that i don't agree with.

I also do manual testing.

Yes the AI is waiting for me often, but that's just reality of how long it takes to sign off on code that is being committed under my name.

[–]cmaxim 0 Punkte1 Punkt  (0 Kinder)

Yeah.. in the beginning I was feeling like I would be reviewing all the code that AI spits out, and then direct each granular choice where needed to keep things moving forward.

I'm finding the reality is that AI is just much faster and more efficient at reviewing and producing code than I am. While I still think it's important to regularly review what it's outputting I often just can't keep up on larger projects, and I end up using AI to help review the AI, otherwise I start to lag and slow down which ends up defeating the partial purpose of AI (increasing productivity).

[–]Asura24 -4 Punkte-3 Punkte  (0 Kinder)

I haven’t written 1 line of code in the past months, no realistic reason for you to do it either if you are using the best models out there.
Also I would recommend you to always run things in auto most of the time it will do things right, you shouldn’t be wasting time for day to day stuff anymore just checkout the final PR